Charlize Theron on Old Guard 2 The Odyssey and Furiosa Pain

Charlize Theron never planned to make a sequel to 2020’s The Old Guard, but when it became one of Netflix’s most viewed films of all time, the pieces already happened to be in place. 

The coda at the end of Gina Prince-Bythewood’s soulful action drama teased that Quỳnh (Veronica Ngô), the long lost immortal lover of Theron’s Andromache (Andy) of Scythia, had finally been freed from her underwater tomb where she drowned and re-drowned millions upon millions of times. That extra piece of story wasn’t necessarily intended to be sequel bait; it just made sense to illustrate that the story is never over for a group of immortal warriors.

With director Victoria Mahoney now at the helm, The Old Guard 2 chronicles Andy and the Old Guard’s renewed purpose to do good in the world, all while Andy further adjusts to being a mere mortal per the last movie’s story point. But Quỳnh’s unexpected return to civilization and the simultaneous emergence of Uma Thurman’s mysterious figure known as Discord test Andy and her team in unprecedented ways. And similar to the original film, the second chapter also ends on another tantalizing cliffhanger. 

When asked if she’s confident about the likelihood of a third Old Guard film, Theron refuses to get ahead of herself, something she’s wised up to over the years.

“Never confident, no. One thing I’ve learned in this business is that there are no guarantees, and it’s really gracious of [Netflix] to not have pushed us into another direction,” Theron tells The Hollywood Reporter in support of The Old Guard 2’s July 2 release. “This was always where we wanted to land the film, and it’s also very reminiscent of the first one. So we treated this one exactly the same, but I’m being completely honest when I say that we have absolutely no idea what that [third film] would even look like.”

Later this month, Theron will join the set of Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey. She’s portraying the mighty sorceress, Circe, at a point when Nolan and co. have already been filming for five months. 

“I feel like I’m going to be the new kid on the block. I know it’s epic from reading the script, but for myself, I’m only there for two weeks, I think,” Theron shares.

During an interview with this THR writer in 2020, Theron candidly expressed how “heartbreaking” it was to be recast ahead of George Miller’s Mad Max: Fury Road prequel, Furiosa. It’s rare for an actor and a character to catch lightning in a bottle like Theron and her vengeful mechanic did, and so one would think that today’s technology — or simple suspension of disbelief à la Spike Lee’s Da 5 Bloods flashback narrative — would be pursued to keep that iconic pairing together. However, Anya Taylor-Joy instead took over the 20-something version of the character.

Theron has deep admiration for Taylor-Joy and Miller’s 2024 film, but she reiterates that the recasting is still a point of contention given how long she lived in Furiosa’s shoes and the hardships she endured along the way. 

“There’s nothing around [the recasting] that, to me, felt malicious. It was something that just dragged out for too long, and I totally understand it. It still doesn’t make it feel any better,” Theron says. “I probably lived in [Furiosa’s] body the longest out of any of my characters, and it was challenging. It was really challenging. But I think [Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga] is absolutely beautiful.”

Fury Road’s chaotic production has been well documented at this point, but in an age where behind-the-scenes stories are being turned into narrative features or series more frequently, it seems inevitable that Fury Road will eventually get the same treatment that David Fincher applied to Citizen Kane through Mank. (Other recent making-of narratives include The Disaster Artist, The Offer and Peter Farrelly’s upcoming movie about Rocky.)

Theron has never contemplated the possibility of a Fury Road making-of movie, but she does agree with the suggestion that a former co-star of hers would be an excellent choice to play her. “Yeah, [Mackenzie Davis] is incredible. She’s got the arms,” Theron says.

Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Theron also discusses her friendship with Keanu Reeves and their ongoing attempts to reunite on screen. Then she previews her next Netflix actioner, Apex.

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On behalf of everyone, we love when you make action movies, but you always seem to pay a physical toll for our entertainment. Did that trend continue on this one? 

I got a black eye on this one, but I didn’t break anything, so it’s getting better. 

Compared to your past movies, I’m glad to hear that.

It’s mostly bruising. It’s a kind of bruising that is hard to describe. When you do these fight sequences where you don’t want to cut every two seconds, there’s no way around it. So to play things continuously, your body takes a bit of a bruising, and there’s only so many pads that you can put underneath your costume. 

Are you glad that the stunt community that helps create Andy, Lorraine (Atomic Blonde) and Furiosa can finally receive Oscar recognition?

Over the moon. It’s such a joyous moment, but it’s also frustrating that it took this long. They are incredible performers, and without those performances, we couldn’t do what we need to do. 

Andy is still mortal like she was at the end of the first Old Guard, and there are times where she has to use KiKi Layne’s character, Nile, as a shield. But overall, does she still fight as if she’s immortal? Or has she had to change her fighting style? 

Yeah, I don’t think she’s reckless. She’s eager, but she’s not reckless. She really values working as a team and she really values her team. She also finds something in Nile that makes her want to be close to her, even though she’s being a shield for her. She knows that she’s going to be okay, but she wants to keep her close to her. So I don’t think she’s got a death wish. That’s not the Andy that we meet. We meet an Andy who is at peace with her reality and her circumstance, but she’s also excited to want to continue. 

Having Uma Thurman square off against you is inspired casting. Had the two of you crossed paths over the years?

No, we kind of knew each other from afar, but I’ve always been a massive fan. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve developed something and I would throw her name out there. I’ve constantly tried to pull something together with us, and I’ve also had so many people around me whose opinions I really value, say, “You guys have to make a movie. People will absolutely love to see the two of you do action.” Her action is so strong, and she’s really raised the bar. So I felt like I had to really bring it. She was going to bring it, so I had to bring it. 

I’ve been laughing to myself over what you said to her during your Hot Ones Versus episode: “Just eat a fucking wing, bitch!”

(Laughs.) That’s amazing. I can’t even remember saying that because I was in such panic. So thanks for reminding me. I’ll make a mental note of that. 

Have you spent much time on helicopters? I suppose what I’m really asking is why you’d put yourself through the harrowing stunt of hanging off one.

No, I haven’t spent a lot of time on helicopters; I’m not crazy about them either. It just came out of the creative process and wanting to make that third-act set piece be as big as we all wanted it to be. Given that Uma was in it, we wanted it to really feel like an incredible set piece. So when we started adding these helicopters, we then had to figure out how they fit into the action. 

Fred North, who’s a legend in the business and does all the helicopter action work in every movie, then came on board. And I asked him: “How can we enhance this story without it feeling like action for the sake of action? How can we do it in a way that feels practical and not on stage with a blue screen or a green screen? How can we do it practically and safely so that it feels like you haven’t seen this before in a movie?” And he said to us, “I don’t know why, but I’ve never done this with an actor. [Hanging an actor off the side of a helicopter] is actually incredibly safe if we do it the right way. It will look great, and you can do it all practically with a real helicopter.” So he was really the one that threw this idea at us, and that’s really where it originated. 

It’s so easy to be impressed by what you pull off on screen, but you often talk about how unimpressed your kids are. Have they given you your props yet? 

They’re kids. They’re doing exactly what they’re supposed to do. I don’t think anybody’s kids really feel that way about their parents, no matter what they do. And they’re teenagers now. So, even if they were [impressed], they would never show it. But I want to believe that we’ll actually sit down one day when they’re old enough to have a glass of wine, and they’ll say, “You know what, Mom? It was pretty badass when you were 50 and you were hanging off that helicopter. We never gave you your props.”

You wrapped principal photography on The Old Guard 2 a few years ago, but post-production lasted much longer than anyone expected. Did any silver linings emerge from the extra time? 

Yeah, you just try to utilize the time. It wasn’t necessarily [extra] time that we wanted. It was unfortunate, and it was just what was going on in the world. COVID was still really taking a toll on our business, and we had to shut down a couple of times. But you take advantage of that, and the creativity never stops. Even when you cut the camera, you’re still thinking about it that night, and it’s the same in the editorial process. So I never looked at that time as wasted. There’s nothing you can do about it, you can’t control it, but we utilized it to our best. We threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall, so we really, really know that this is the best movie being put forward. 

This film ends on a brutal cliffhanger, and I desperately want to believe that Netflix wouldn’t let you do that unless they already expressed interest in a third film. How confident are you at this moment in time?

Oh, never confident, no. One thing I’ve learned in this business is that there are no guarantees, and it’s really gracious of [Netflix] to not have pushed us into another direction. This was always where we wanted to land the film, and it’s also very reminiscent of the first one. We never ended the first one thinking we were going to do a second, but that was how it just happened to be. So we treated this one exactly the same, but I’m being completely honest when I say that we have absolutely no idea what that [third film] would even look like. 

What else are you proud of on a producorial level?

First and foremost, nobody got hurt. That’s the thing that you’re always challenged by and worried about, especially when big set pieces come up. It’s making sure that nothing falls through the cracks. We did that big end [helicopter] set piece towards the end of the shoot, and it was already a long shoot. Everybody was really tired, and that’s when you really have to have an extra cup of coffee because that’s usually when mistakes happen. So I’m just really happy that nobody got hurt. 

Secondly, I’m really proud of the film that we’re putting out. It hasn’t necessarily been an easy nut to crack. It’s a big world with giant mythology, and the characters play a central part in telling the story of The Old Guard. So it makes the writing and the development really challenging because you want everybody to be able to have time. This is why television is so great. How do you do that in two hours and really give everybody the moment that they need in a story? It’s really complicated without making it convoluted. 

So I look at the movie now after many years of it being in post, and I’m very, very proud of the film that we’re putting forward. We really did what we initially set out to accomplish, and we never backed off that. No matter how hard it got, we stayed on that same road.

During summer 2020 press for the first Old Guard, I remember you getting a lot of headlines for saying that you’d never had a meeting with Marvel to that point. Did those headlines actually wake them up? The timing between your quote and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ photography was close enough that it gave off that impression.

Oh, I have no idea. I spent one day with them on that set. I spent most of that time really trying to wrap my head around what they wanted to do and where this was going. This is their process. It works for them. I was happy to come on board because it felt like there was a lot of room to explore, but I don’t know if that’s what it was. I should have asked them.

In other news, congratulations on being employed by Christopher Nolan. 

Thanks! 

You’ve been on plenty of huge movies, but does this one take the cake?

Well, I haven’t been there yet. Like you guys, I’m just hearing and seeing everything from afar. I’m leaving in three weeks or something like that, and I feel like I’m going to be the new kid on the block. I know it’s epic from reading the script, but for myself, I’m only there for two weeks, I think. Chris is the kind of filmmaker who knows exactly what’s in his head, and he knows the movie that he’s making, so I am going to go with that. But doing Fury Road and shooting it for a hundred days, that was as epic as I’ve ever gone. [Note: Theron has since confirmed that she’s playing the sorceress Circe.]

There’s a somewhat recent trend of movies or shows about the making of famous movies. David Fincher made Mank about the writing of Citizen Kane. The Disaster Artist chronicled The Room’s origin. The Offer explored the behind-the-scenes of The Godfather, and there’s a movie being made soon about Rocky’s production. Do you think it’s only a matter of time before somebody makes a narrative feature about the making of Mad Max: Fury Road?

I can honestly tell you I’ve never thought about that. I do not know what the realities are or how plausible [that would be]. I can’t even think about it that way. The great thing is people can be so creative and actually pull something great out of that, but it’s just not something that I’ve ever spent any time thinking about.

I already know who should play you in the behind-the-scenes movie, and it’s obvious to anyone who’s seen a 2018 gem called Tully.

(Laughs.) Yeah, [Mackenzie Davis] is incredible. She’s got the arms.

When I spoke to you five years ago, you were incredibly candid about Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga and how “heartbreaking” that recasting decision was. Did you let yourself watch it?

I watched it, and I think it’s a beautiful film. I am a massive fan of Anya [Taylor-Joy]. She’s an incredible actor. There’s nothing around [the recasting] that, to me, felt malicious. It was something that just dragged out for too long, and I totally understand it. It still doesn’t make it feel any better. I probably lived in [Furiosa’s] body the longest out of any of my characters, and it was challenging. It was really challenging. But I am so supportive of what ended up happening, and I think the movie is absolutely beautiful.

You were bowled over when I previously mentioned this to you, but I spoke to John Wick directors, Chad Stahelski and Dave Leitch, for their film’s tenth anniversary last year. And I informed them both that your terminally ill Sweet November character mailed a dog to Keanu 13 years before John Wick’s terminally ill wife mailed him a dog. Apparently, Chad learned about it shortly after the first movie came out, but Dave didn’t know. 

(Laughs.) You are obviously a lover of film because not a lot of people would know that.

More importantly, it’s been too long since you and Keanu have worked together. Who can I blame for this drought? 

Honestly, there’s no one to blame. We are really trying, and we have been for all these years. Obviously, we are both very busy, but we have been in development on a couple of things. We’re both very similar in the sense that we love each other. We’re family, and we want to find the thing that is really worthy of the two of us being in it. In many ways, it’s like doing a sequel to [The Old Guard]. We don’t want to just do it for the sake of doing so, but we think about it a lot.

You mentioned during your Hot Ones episode that Keanu is most likely to not show up for a dinner party of yours. Is that a thing with him?

Oh my gosh, did I? I can’t remember why I said that. He definitely goes by his own clock, but not in a disrespectful way. He always shows up. He’s professional. He’s a great friend. He’s one of the most loyal friends I’ve ever had. He’s also great in the sense that you can pick up with him exactly where you left off, and I don’t need to talk to him every single day. But he is a bit of an enigma, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t show up.

The first time you worked together was on The Devil’s Advocate (1997). Was the darkness of that story a lot to put yourself through so early in your career?

Now, when I think back, I’m like, “Yeah.” Maybe it’s just me, but when you’re that age, you’re just so naive, almost. You’re so eager that you almost don’t have time to think about the fact that this could really fall on its face. You’re working with brilliant actors, one who was legendary at that time. You have never done anything to stand on, and you’re all of a sudden doing a scene opposite Al Pacino at 3:00 AM. It could all go so wrong, but when you’re that age and you’re that eager, I was just completely optimistic. It doesn’t mean that you don’t feel like you’re going to fail, but you’re more like, “I’m going to get it right. Give me one more shot. I’m going to get this right.” So, in retrospect, there’s this wonderful fearlessness that we have when we’re young. It’s called stupidity. (Laughs.) We lose a little bit of that as we get older, but that fearlessness is what I think got me to where I am, hopefully.

You were an EP on Mindhunter, and there was recent talk that it might be revived in the form of three feature films. Should we temper our expectations at this current juncture?

I think you know just as well as I do that it’s really in the world of David. It’s up to him, and if he wraps his head around it, then it will happen. I know that he loves this world just as much as I do, but he only does things when he really feels like there’s potential in it. He’s a realist, and if he wants to do it, he’ll do it.

Lastly, you just produced and starred in another Netflix actioner called Apex?

Yeah, we just wrapped Apex. It was really a challenge, and it was a different challenge. When I read the script, I was like, “Oh, this could be really refreshing. There’s no fight scenes, so I won’t have to learn a style of fighting. It’s really just action, like climbing a mountain and running.” And boy was I wrong. I messed with the Gods. It was very practical, very real, and I truly did things on this movie that I never ever thought I would do. So it’s been good. I keep pushing myself.

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The Old Guard 2 premieres July 2 on Netflix.